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Hi, Victor, and welcome! I'm not familiar with the process but maybe someone else will be. Hang around for a while... Welcome to you too, Tim! Geoff, I have been in mental hospitals several times for chronic dystemic depression. I can see why you would want to write about the experiences there. It is fascinating to be in a situation where almost everyone is vulnerable and has her or his guard down. Isn't it amazing how quickly the friendships begin? We could all learn lessons there. I have also found it interesting that in these hospitals, you often heal your own pain by helping others. The very things that you tell them are the things you need to hear. That is another way of getting in touch with the spirit within. I don't know of any reason why schizophrenics shouldn't be able to experience other levels of spiritual reality. (In fact, you may have a "leg up" on this.) But because of the label, others may credit messed up body chemistry. Sometimes it doesn't matter what others think. I guess one question you might ask yourself is Is this experience enhancing or interfering with my ability to cope with the physical world? For me, those rare and indescribable experiences have been very helpful emotionally. But I don't think that I would be able to function or even experience "Unity" if I didn't take my medication. As for being a prophet, I don't know. I tend to be a little skeptical. Maybe it depends on your definition of "prophet." There have been times when I have felt that some of the things I have posted her were coming through me rather than from me. But those times have been very limited. It is better to listen to your SELF and to encourage others to do the same. But that's just my opinion and may not apply in your situation.
Welcome to you too, Tim!
Geoff, I have been in mental hospitals several times for chronic dystemic depression. I can see why you would want to write about the experiences there. It is fascinating to be in a situation where almost everyone is vulnerable and has her or his guard down. Isn't it amazing how quickly the friendships begin? We could all learn lessons there.
I have also found it interesting that in these hospitals, you often heal your own pain by helping others. The very things that you tell them are the things you need to hear. That is another way of getting in touch with the spirit within.
I don't know of any reason why schizophrenics shouldn't be able to experience other levels of spiritual reality. (In fact, you may have a "leg up" on this.) But because of the label, others may credit messed up body chemistry. Sometimes it doesn't matter what others think.
I guess one question you might ask yourself is Is this experience enhancing or interfering with my ability to cope with the physical world? For me, those rare and indescribable experiences have been very helpful emotionally. But I don't think that I would be able to function or even experience "Unity" if I didn't take my medication.
As for being a prophet, I don't know. I tend to be a little skeptical. Maybe it depends on your definition of "prophet." There have been times when I have felt that some of the things I have posted her were coming through me rather than from me. But those times have been very limited. It is better to listen to your SELF and to encourage others to do the same. But that's just my opinion and may not apply in your situation.
how can i find out more informztion on the 5 step cleansing process known as puncha karma (not sure of the spelling)i'd sure appreciate any help you can offer
10:30 am CDT "Heart"-landFrank, very observant, how the "steps" are a "process", or "progressive" as you put it.In AA the first three steps are "surrender" steps that deal with recognition of a "Higher Power", or "God as we understand Him". That "wording" is why the Program works for anyone, no matter the "lineage" they may have been brought up in.I've noticed that many people "gravitate" towards the Unity organization (myself included) because of their "inclusivity".Peace
Frank, very observant, how the "steps" are a "process", or "progressive" as you put it.
In AA the first three steps are "surrender" steps that deal with recognition of a "Higher Power", or "God as we understand Him". That "wording" is why the Program works for anyone, no matter the "lineage" they may have been brought up in.
I've noticed that many people "gravitate" towards the Unity organization (myself included) because of their "inclusivity".
Peace
10:10 am CDT "Heart"-landSee what I mean by the "stigma" attached to being and alcoholic? Otherwise, where'd everybody go? Just Kidding. Namaste'
See what I mean by the "stigma" attached to being and alcoholic? Otherwise, where'd everybody go?
Just Kidding.
Namaste'
10:05 am CDT "Heart"-land HAPPY TAX DAY
Terry: I did not know that. Screw the label! I recently joined a group that uses 8 steps which were modified from the 12 steps. It is called the "mastermind" system and it is used by people from the Unity church as a structure for a prayer group. I find the steps to be progressive and an extention from eachother in a similar way that the Seven Spiritual Laws are. Hmm.. never looked at those two things in similar light before. Interesting. I really enjoy your posts Terry and I can tell you are coming from a "good space". Please keep the insightful posts coming. Namaste.
I really enjoy your posts Terry and I can tell you are coming from a "good space". Please keep the insightful posts coming. Namaste.
" I will not serve God,like a labourer,in expectation of my wages." Rabia-al Adawiyya. ( sufi woman saint, 8th century)
Geoff - one really good way you and your friends can learn more about Deepak is to contact one of his educators in Australia. Not only do they teach courses, but they are usually a good resource of information. Some instructors lead discussion groups. There are several instructors in Australia - I have a friend who teaches in Melbourne, and I know there are several in other locations. For a list of them see the Directory of educators at the Chopra site, and for Australia, click on International: Directory of educators - http://www.chopra.com/courseinst.htm
Here's the link to Carol's Ram Dass posts (click here) that Pat mentioned.
10:55 am CDT "Heart"-landFrank, thanks for that site earlier.
Frank, thanks for that site earlier.
9:45 am CDT "Heart"-land and SHUTTING OFF THE DAMN TV! and my "mouth"! Namaste'
and
and my "mouth"!
9:30 am CDT "Heart"-landGuess I'm on a roll (role---ha).This brings me to Cara's success with those two young men at that early age.In retospect I can remember at about the age of 11 or 12 thinking (un-consciously) that "there's something wrong with this picture".Today I know what was missing was "love" in the form of "explanations" to the "confusion". (It's no different with our youth today)A person in my life being "honest" with me from the getgo, and of course me being likewise because of "trust" (knowing that person's "in my corner").I grew up feeling that "you" all knew something, but you weren't telling me what it was, which started that rebelliousness. (sp?)A movement locally is to get people involved "mentoring" our youth, and that's what has been needed for quite some time.Namaste'
Guess I'm on a roll (role---ha).
This brings me to Cara's success with those two young men at that early age.
In retospect I can remember at about the age of 11 or 12 thinking (un-consciously) that "there's something wrong with this picture".
Today I know what was missing was "love" in the form of "explanations" to the "confusion". (It's no different with our youth today)
A person in my life being "honest" with me from the getgo, and of course me being likewise because of "trust" (knowing that person's "in my corner").
I grew up feeling that "you" all knew something, but you weren't telling me what it was, which started that rebelliousness. (sp?)
A movement locally is to get people involved "mentoring" our youth, and that's what has been needed for quite some time.
9:10 am CDT "Heart"-landI'll get off that topic (AA) with just one more comment. There are over 200 "Programs" using the 12 Steps as originally established by AA, and it's just in the 1st Step that "the" problem gets changed. The 1st Step in AA is "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanageable". It's the word "alcohol" that gets changed to "eating", "emotions", "gambling", "sex", etc. Frank, I hope that answers your question. Although my "studies and further experiences" weren't part of the AA Program, I realized that the "process" brought "them" to the same "experience" in time, at least to an understanding of them-selves and a peacefulness (relationship with "God") they'd never known before.Namaste'
I'll get off that topic (AA) with just one more comment. There are over 200 "Programs" using the 12 Steps as originally established by AA, and it's just in the 1st Step that "the" problem gets changed.
The 1st Step in AA is "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanageable". It's the word "alcohol" that gets changed to "eating", "emotions", "gambling", "sex", etc.
Frank, I hope that answers your question. Although my "studies and further experiences" weren't part of the AA Program, I realized that the "process" brought "them" to the same "experience" in time, at least to an understanding of them-selves and a peacefulness (relationship with "God") they'd never known before.
9:00 am CDT "Heart"-landMust have been important----I didn't do it. I might add at this point that the young man I mentioned had his "experience" through those Steps (after Step 5).Here I must add that although it's a common "happening", it is generally a gradual process over time for most, as they continue to practice the "Program". What is called the "educational" process. Much like what "we" are doing right now.Namaste'
Must have been important----I didn't do it.
I might add at this point that the young man I mentioned had his "experience" through those Steps (after Step 5).
Here I must add that although it's a common "happening", it is generally a gradual process over time for most, as they continue to practice the "Program". What is called the "educational" process. Much like what "we" are doing right now.
8:45 am CDT "Heart"-landGeoff, at least now you can say "been there, done that". My problem with "labels" is that just the mention of some of them "classifies" them in the eyes of society, and when you're interacting with others individually or in groups, it can "block" honest communication. For instance (Frank), I'm "classified" as a "chronic alcoholic" in the medical world, and of course it's true that I damn near drank myself to death.It is also true that it was by the "Grace" (love) of "God" (Universe) that I didn't.I relate my experience to Paul getting knocked off his horse, only I didn't get any explanation as to what happened for a couple of months (as I mentioned in an earlier post).What I have come to know is that the 12 Steps of AA will "lead" us "within" (once we've accepted "the" problem) as well as gives one an avenue of a disciplined life and "method".Namaste'
Geoff, at least now you can say "been there, done that". My problem with "labels" is that just the mention of some of them "classifies" them in the eyes of society, and when you're interacting with others individually or in groups, it can "block" honest communication.
For instance (Frank), I'm "classified" as a "chronic alcoholic" in the medical world, and of course it's true that I damn near drank myself to death.
It is also true that it was by the "Grace" (love) of "God" (Universe) that I didn't.
I relate my experience to Paul getting knocked off his horse, only I didn't get any explanation as to what happened for a couple of months (as I mentioned in an earlier post).
What I have come to know is that the 12 Steps of AA will "lead" us "within" (once we've accepted "the" problem) as well as gives one an avenue of a disciplined life and "method".
8:35 am CDT "Heart"-land GREAT "stuff" to start my day. Many "cosmic" chuckles about some of the replies, and as Carol mentioned, some-body 2000 years ago mentioned something about "being in the world, but not of it.
GREAT "stuff" to start my day.
Many "cosmic" chuckles about some of the replies, and as Carol mentioned, some-body 2000 years ago mentioned something about "being in the world, but not of it.
Frank - You make me laugh! I adore your sense of celebration! Go for it, dear!
James I see I used "many of us" in 2 ways in my last post, so I think I meant that in terms of many of us who visit here at the Forum as well as many of us who seek... Isn't life exciting such that we find new things to 'remember' and read about through others. Carol - who posts here occasionally - blessed us with segments of "Grist for the Mill" by Ram Dass. Though I have not read the book in its entirety, it is quite amazing in how it describes (in what I define as) multi-dimensional life...how you 'turn the channel' and what could be on each one. It is just a part of the book. I know her postings are located on Kitty's Geocities site, but I don't have the URL. Perhaps when she visits here, she will post it for you.
I see I used "many of us" in 2 ways in my last post, so I think I meant that in terms of many of us who visit here at the Forum as well as many of us who seek...
Isn't life exciting such that we find new things to 'remember' and read about through others. Carol - who posts here occasionally - blessed us with segments of "Grist for the Mill" by Ram Dass. Though I have not read the book in its entirety, it is quite amazing in how it describes (in what I define as) multi-dimensional life...how you 'turn the channel' and what could be on each one. It is just a part of the book. I know her postings are located on Kitty's Geocities site, but I don't have the URL. Perhaps when she visits here, she will post it for you.
Dear James ~ Although I been following the forum , I have refrained from posting during these past days... But , I cannot help but comment on your most recent offering . It is EXACTLY what I needed to read this morning . Along with gratitude , it brings a smile to my face. You are so so right ! It also brings to mind the statement of one 2000 years ago "Go...... and tell no man .." So wise - Love , Cara
Dear James ~ Although I been following the forum , I have refrained from posting during these past days... But , I cannot help but comment on your most recent offering . It is EXACTLY what I needed to read this morning . Along with gratitude , it brings a smile to my face. You are so so right ! It also brings to mind the statement of one 2000 years ago "Go...... and tell no man .." So wise -
Love , Cara
Just a couple of quick replies - To Terry, who said screw the "label". Well, in a way I am very grateful for being "labelled" since it has brought me into contact with the most amazing people on the planet. I think some of them are angels. Literally. On the subject of labels, one of my friends said it is a badge of honour - if society is monstrous and destructive then anyone who doesn't "fit into it" must be on the right path. Whether this failure to fit in is instinctive or a choice is an interesting question. Yes, I realise his view has a touch of the "us and them" about it but nevertheless it expresses an intriguing viewpoint. I will write more when I get the time
Terry, your line of work has me curious. Are you a counsellor or psychiatrist or what is it that you do and what type of organization are you affiliated with? I don't know if you wish to discuss it publically but it has me interested. Namaste.
Geoff, have you ever read anything by Robert Persig? He wrote "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintanance". Being "schizophrenic", Persig delves deep into some pretty deep stuff about philosophy, religion and mental health. Zen and the Art, is my all time favoret book. Persig spent a considerable amount of time in psychiatric wards, and underwent electro-convolsive therapy. I found it amazing, and what I call "paradigm liberating".
Pat, What do you mean "Many of us..."? I have never heard of a book called, "Grist for the Mill"! Who is the author? What is it about? Thanks James
What do you mean "Many of us..."? I have never heard of a book called, "Grist for the Mill"! Who is the author? What is it about?
Thanks
James
Geoff, you wrote,"If a person claims to be a prophet or to be communicating directly with God are they right or are they insane?" Yes. Depending on your point of view. For the individual, they are most certainly "right". For (probably) the majority of "normal" people, they are bonkers. But then, the majority of "normal" people are crazy anyways. Have you ever heard the story about the king and the poisoned well? Seems the main well in the capitol became poisoned and anyone who drank from it became crazy. Within a few short days, the entire city was nuts except the king. When he tried to explain to everyone that they were the crazy ones, they threatened to kill him. So, instead of fighting, he decided to join them and drank from the well. As soon as he went crazy, the people calmed down and he was able to rule them without any problems. All mortals have drunk from the well and are insane. They are insane because they think that they are someone they aren't. They think that they are only this bag of bones and flesh. They think that they are separate from "God". They think that there are really such things as "Good" and "Evil". They have eaten of the Tree of Knowledge and have been cast out of Eden. They are just as nuts as a bowl of pistaccios. But if you try to tell them, they will look at you like YOU are "crazy", and if you press them enough, they will lock you away or try to kill you. At least, that is one perspective... Peace James
Yes.
Depending on your point of view. For the individual, they are most certainly "right". For (probably) the majority of "normal" people, they are bonkers. But then, the majority of "normal" people are crazy anyways. Have you ever heard the story about the king and the poisoned well?
Seems the main well in the capitol became poisoned and anyone who drank from it became crazy. Within a few short days, the entire city was nuts except the king. When he tried to explain to everyone that they were the crazy ones, they threatened to kill him. So, instead of fighting, he decided to join them and drank from the well. As soon as he went crazy, the people calmed down and he was able to rule them without any problems.
All mortals have drunk from the well and are insane. They are insane because they think that they are someone they aren't. They think that they are only this bag of bones and flesh. They think that they are separate from "God". They think that there are really such things as "Good" and "Evil". They have eaten of the Tree of Knowledge and have been cast out of Eden. They are just as nuts as a bowl of pistaccios. But if you try to tell them, they will look at you like YOU are "crazy", and if you press them enough, they will lock you away or try to kill you.
At least, that is one perspective...
Ok. True true I am not a baptised Sikh, but I love reasons to celebrate. ;-) Baisakhi History Namaste. Saht Sri Ekal! (sp?) translation "There is Only One God"
Baisakhi History
Namaste. Saht Sri Ekal! (sp?) translation "There is Only One God"
Catherine: First I would recommend Dr. Deepak Chopra's book "Quantum Healing" .. if you cannot get it in Belgium, I can get you a copy .. do you have yoga in Belgium? Mild forms of yoga would help. Juicing helps .. certain foods she maybe eating may be hurting her system. Also, anything by Dr. Andrew Wiehl would be great reading on holistic health and healing. Hope I've been of some help! Big hug! Namasate debi
15 minutes until Baisakhi!
Firstly, great gratitude for some very inspiring teachings. secondly, interested in what others have to say generally.
TerryO said it best: screw the label. You sound very curious, intelligent and aware of the events occuring in your life. And I've read so many books that state one must really be "out of their mind" to follow their spiritual voice. Many of us have been there one way or another! I have also read Celestine Prophecy as well as the Tenth Insight. I found them both surprising, validating (not that they needed to be) and insightful. I/we would be happy to discuss them with you. I will also recommend several other books that might help you along your path: The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra, Manifest your Destiny by Wayne Dyer, and Conversations with God, I, II, and III. Terry's recommendation to look up Ram Dass is a good one. Many of us have the book "Grist for the Mill" from which many explanations arise about spiritual awakenings or events. Welcome to the forum, Geoff, and feel free to express your thoughts, questions, and opinions.
I have also read Celestine Prophecy as well as the Tenth Insight. I found them both surprising, validating (not that they needed to be) and insightful. I/we would be happy to discuss them with you.
I will also recommend several other books that might help you along your path: The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra, Manifest your Destiny by Wayne Dyer, and Conversations with God, I, II, and III. Terry's recommendation to look up Ram Dass is a good one. Many of us have the book "Grist for the Mill" from which many explanations arise about spiritual awakenings or events.
Welcome to the forum, Geoff, and feel free to express your thoughts, questions, and opinions.
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